Aftermarket EFI kits - are they worth the expense?

[smh00n]

I am looking at putting an AU 5.0 into my 70 Stang.

I want to keep it looking old style but with better performance. It will get a build to wake it up a bit.

The throttle body kits from Holley, MSD, FAST etc run about $2,000 ex US.

Can any one vouch for their benefit? I am looking at using one of these which are reputedly plug and play versus buying a decent manifold and carb (Torker and 650 DP).

I think that with either option the end cost will e similar but the EFI 'should' stay stable and in tune a lot longer than the carb set up.

Be interested to hear from folks who have done the conversion and what they think.

[MaxPower]

I purchased the Fast EZ-EFI 2.0 + dual sync dizzy and in-tank fuel pump and lines. Yet to install but it cost be off the top of my head about $4500. Big outlay but very happy. It will basically be the brains of my car and everything else will be based around it. I looked at the MSD and others but my engine, 462FE, was right on the limit of their capabilities so I went for the more suited kit.

Here's an interesting article on them

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/140 ... -efi-test/

[boofhead]

Welcome to the web site. Lots of very knowledgeable people here on all topics. Do not be put off it a topic morphs a little just a part of the fun. Always more information than noise - people like to have some fun as well.

Good question.

I would convert your existing engine - no need for the full change unless you do not have an engine to use (which I am not sure of). Either way it works fine. So I would (as this is what I have done and similarly so have Hybrid);
(a) Purchase an EFI Super Vic manifold (or clone) and the matching EFI rails
(b) Get the regulator and pump, pluming etc as required.
(c) Get a Edelbrock 4 barrel throttle body (with the TPS and idle valve) or similar.
(d) Get a MSD later TFI replacement EFI distributor.
(e) Get a Megasquirt or Microsquirt EFI box (you can build it if interested),
(f) Wire it up yourself and have fun tuning.

As I said, Hybrid has this set up and he detailed a lot in his thread and has a summary in the tech section, I have as well. Gbx78 (Scarlet thread) has done similarly though he has use a different manifold and Throttle body (see his thread). I have also converted a NC fairlane and another 65 FB using the basic same set up. I really like this powerful DIY approach.

Having said that Steve (see Hellenor thread) is using a FAST 2.0 system on his big block and so are a few others.

Hit us with the questions and we will try to help.

[soc123_au]

I am happy with the FAST Xfi so far. Its yet to be driven, but start up was pretty straight forward. Considering the animal my engine is it starts & idles with ease. The idle is very wild & loud (113db lol) It revs cleanly as well. It would be a pig without the engine management.

[Ronin187]

Boof do you think there is a big difference between the direct port injection and the FAST carb style injection?

I've been doing a bit of research since I first posed the same question to the board, as this will be my next project.

[boofhead]

The primary advantage of EFI is precise fuel delivery. This can only be achieved if the fuel is injected as close to the valve as possible. When the ports (intake and less extent the head) needs to carry both the fuel (suspended in the air) and air sizing is far more important. You do not want fuel puddling inside the ports as you then need more fuel to make up for the add demand (due to less fuel getting to the chamber). So it is tunned to be slightly richer. On the other hand, under high vacuum the engine will pull some wall fuel so it is then even richer as the base rich fuel then gets more fuel evaporated from the walls.

In summary, EFI has tuning flexibility advantages over a Carbi but these advantages grow if your using a port injection solution than an Injection system at the Throttle body. Although being slightly more trouble to install it is worth the extra bother to have a port injection set up.

The question is; would the average driver notice on the road. I would expect not other than idle improvement (especially with a grumpy cam [depending on the mode being used]) and within the cruising tune area with the resulting fuel savings (depending on the tune) from direct injection.

[smh00n]

Thanks. So the basic plan is positive.

I am looking at the plug and play stuff as I don't want to have to tune/program/punch numbers into a laptop.

I am wanting the reliability and power (??) that the aftermarket systems give.

At this stage, I think the MSD is for me. I read all through that Hot Rod article before I posted but it was slightly vanilla in a recommendation.

With the Hybrid setup Boof quotes, what is the cost (ballpark is fine) and the effort to get it to run? If it were substantially cheaper I would look at it but to save 500 bucks honestly I'd sell a bit more stuff on ebay to fund it for the ease.

Stephen

[Ronin187]

I'm crunching numbers at the moment smh00n, I reckon that you could do it cheaper than the FAST kit, but I guess it depends on what you want really.

I initially wanted the FAST Ez EFI 2.0, but I'm now leaning toward Boof's setup.

[boofhead]

Here is Edelbrocks setup similar to Mine and Hybrid though we build by getting parts separately (from mixed sources) and using a different ECU.

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/e ... /make/ford

If my memory is right then I think Donoauto is using one on his mustang.

I have always wanted to tryout the Proflow XT manifold as shown in this kit

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/e ... /make/ford

I think it would work well but it would not look stock.

Then FAST has options that are similar as well such as this

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/f ... /make/ford

You can put one together for less though I do it for the fun, challenge and interest then convenience. I want full flexibility in turning because I like to play. With the Megasquirt I can even change the EFI firmware (software) if I wish. See Hybrid cost summary in 'DIY tech section' - savings are there - maybe not enough to make the extra potential trouble worth the effort.

I think you have a number of options. Keep us informed I am interested in your decision and the results.

[soc123_au]

The fast xfi 2.0 is pretty basic to tune, it also has a self learn mode. For a direct port setup I think it's pretty good value. I looked at the megasquirt setup, but it was a bit to hands on for my brain.

[donoauto]

Boof's memory serves him correctly. I purchased the Edelbrock pro-flo that he's 1st link leads you to (part#35210). Got it when the ozzie dollar was strong & some kind gentleman informed us about a checkout coupon code that was still valid for more of a discount - around $3000 delivered from Summit.
I love it but may not suit you as there is a bit of dicking around on a laptop & no self learn feature. Edelbrock does have programs based on what engine you are running that you can flash onto the ECU via a laptop which gives you basic straight out of the box running BUT I did find that fuel mixtures were a little out.
To avoid spending time at a dyno shop, I purchased a wide band air/fuel ratio gauge to read my mixtures in real time whilst I was driving so in effect I was my own dyno. That allowed me to tune it on the road when I saw either too lean or too rich mixtures at certain loads.
Once setup, more than happy with fuel economy at cruise (in fact it's stupidly frugal on fuel on the highway) & offers me extra 30-40 HP than a carby setup under acceleration.
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[boofhead]

Very nice photos and great report.

[smh00n]

I think for me I'll go with the off the shelf stuff. Simply because I've spent the last 5 years working my butt off to buy this thing and now I just want to do it easily. I have done my time looking into a laptop and now I just want to use it to look up stuff for my ride and nothing technical.

I note that no tests quote any power figures. Any one know if the power and torque increases with the TBI kits or are we just getting better fuel delivery and smoother running?

I'd be happy to pull 400 out of this thing but only using a T5 box so not sure if it will take it. (Last time I played with V8's was 25 years ago and I suspect some things have changed since then)

[Shaunp]

I personally wouldn't bother unless it was multi point at the port, anything else is just an electric carby to me, like an EA falcon. You wont see 400 on a stock 302 with a carb or injection. If you were sticking with a carb forget a Torker, you want an RPM Airgap, on the street.

[smh00n]

Thanks Shaun. The motor will be built to make power.

Looks like carb is the deal and I'll stick the saved funds into some inner top end hardware